Re: Questions for AscTec

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Re: Questions for AscTec

bouffard
Hi Stefan,

We had a discussion about this here in the lab and here are our thoughts.

Our top priority is getting more computational resources onboard, and
the most effective way to do this, especially for the type of
computing we are interested in, is to have a decent GPU onboard.

Based on current trends, something like the Tegra SOC chipset from
NVidia looks like it could be very useful. Of course since it is not
an x86/amd64 architecture, it will not be as easy to use as the Atom
until Linux is well-supported on something like the Tegra (and I'm no
expert on this but my impression is that it's not terribly well
supported yet). So suppose you have two designs, design A which is x86
based with a powerful GPU, and design B which is an integrated ARM+GPU
design, and both have the same amount of GPU 'power' available (and
don't ask me how exactly one would measure that :) then I think you
could argue that design A is preferable from a usability perspective.
Then again, ARM might be the future, but no one has a crystal ball,
right?

Aside from the GPU question, it would be nice if we had some more
options for I/O. If you look at something like the COM Express
Baseboard on the PixHawk
(http://pixhawk.ethz.ch/wiki/electronics/base_large), there are things
like GPIO and I2C. Also the LVDS connection is awkward and
nonstandard. Something like the mini HDMI on the PixHawk would be much
more useful. Gigabit ethernet would be useful in some situations too.
Though I wouldn't want to see an ethernet jack onboard, just headers
to which one could connect a jack if it was needed. In fact in general
it's probably better to only include headers/picoblades for every
interface and then have the user connect to those to save weight and
space.

Personally I'm only using USB cameras at the moment but Firewire (IEEE
1394) is also very popular so this is also an I/O option to consider.

More generally speaking, the CoreExpress form factor is very small
(58x65 mm) but also the number of options in this form factor is very
limited (AFAICT only Lippert manufactures for this form factor). If it
was physically possible to attach an embedded PC in a more widely
supported form factor (e.g. PC/104, 96x90 mm, we have several of these
in the lab) then that would allow labs more choice in onboard
computing. Of course with the current mechanical design of the Pelican
CoreExpress might be the only form factor that can fit between the
main vertical supports. But our lab for one would probably purchase an
adapter for PC/104 if one was available.

So to sum up:

- GPU
- more I/O options: GPIO, I2C, HDMI, Gigabit Ethernet, FireWire
- ability to easily use other computing options like PC/104

Best,
Pat

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 2:53 AM, Stefan Eichhorn
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Mr. Bouffard,
>
> at the moment we are gathering ideas regarding a new on-board computer module. However, there is not schedule for this project so far.
>
> Feel free to propose all your ideas and needs to me. I will summarize them and discuss them with my colleagues before we start to design a new board.
>
>
> Yours sincerely
>
> Mr. Stefan EICHHORN
> Leitung Vertrieb und Marketing, Prokurist
> Head of Sales and Marketing, Authorized Manager
>
> Amazing Technology!
>
> Ascending Technologies GmbH
> Konrad-Zuse-Bogen 4
> 82152 Krailling, Germany
>
> Tel:        +49 (0)89 - 89 55 60 79-10
> Web:     http://www.asctec.de
>
> Geschäftsführer/CEOs:
> Dipl.-Ing. Michael Achtelik, Klaus-Michael Doth
> Dipl.-Ing. Daniel Gurdan, Dipl.-Ing. Jan Stumpf
> Handelsregister München: HRB 166748
> Ust.-ID: DE254728199 / WEEE Reg.Nr. 72657400
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Patrick Bouffard [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. Januar 2011 07:25
> An: asctec-users
> Cc: Stefan Eichhorn
> Betreff: Questions for AscTec
>
> Bill & Ivan, thanks for creating this forum! I think it will be a useful resource for the community.
>
> I notice that Stefan Eichhorn from AscTec is on the forum users list.
> Stefan: Most of the questions I've asked in emails have been of a general nature and not specific to our particular lab's setup and so would be of general interest to other users of your systems, i.e.
> those on this list.
>
> I'd like to know whether rather than emailing AscTec directly, I could just email this list which you presumably monitor, such that the responses could be immediately seen by the community?
>
> If so, then I already have my first question ;-): Are there any plans to offer a more powerful onboard computer module, for example the next generation CoreExpress (-ECO2):
> http://www.lippertembedded.de/en/productoverview/products-according-to-form-factors/coreexpress.
> ?
>
> Cheers,
> Pat
>
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Re: Questions for AscTec

IvanDryanovski
Administrator
> So to sum up:
>
> - GPU
> - more I/O options: GPIO, I2C, HDMI, Gigabit Ethernet, FireWire
> - ability to easily use other computing options like PC/104

We have had several very similar discussions within our lab. We agree
strongly with all of Patrick's suggestions.

Ivan Dryanovski
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AW: Questions for AscTec

Stefan.Eichhorn
In reply to this post by bouffard

Dear Mr. Bouffard,

 

thank you very much for your feedback and your ideas! I will forward and discuss your requirement to my colleagues and up-date you regarding this matter, but do not expect the feedback within the next weeks.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

Mr. Stefan EICHHORN

Leitung Vertrieb und Marketing, Prokurist

Head of Sales and Marketing, Authorized Manager

 

Amazing Technology!

 

Ascending Technologies GmbH

Konrad-Zuse-Bogen 4

82152 Krailling, Germany

 

Tel:        +49 (0)89 - 89 55 60 79-10

Web:     http://www.asctec.de

 

Geschäftsführer/CEOs:

Dipl.-Ing. Michael Achtelik, Klaus-Michael Doth

Dipl.-Ing. Daniel Gurdan, Dipl.-Ing. Jan Stumpf

Handelsregister München: HRB 166748

Ust.-ID: DE254728199 / WEEE Reg.Nr. 72657400

 

Von: bouffard [via asctec-users] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Gesendet: Freitag, 28. Januar 2011 18:26
An: Stefan Eichhorn
Betreff: Re: Questions for AscTec

 

Hi Stefan,

We had a discussion about this here in the lab and here are our thoughts.

Our top priority is getting more computational resources onboard, and
the most effective way to do this, especially for the type of
computing we are interested in, is to have a decent GPU onboard.

Based on current trends, something like the Tegra SOC chipset from
NVidia looks like it could be very useful. Of course since it is not
an x86/amd64 architecture, it will not be as easy to use as the Atom
until Linux is well-supported on something like the Tegra (and I'm no
expert on this but my impression is that it's not terribly well
supported yet). So suppose you have two designs, design A which is x86
based with a powerful GPU, and design B which is an integrated ARM+GPU
design, and both have the same amount of GPU 'power' available (and
don't ask me how exactly one would measure that :) then I think you
could argue that design A is preferable from a usability perspective.
Then again, ARM might be the future, but no one has a crystal ball,
right?

Aside from the GPU question, it would be nice if we had some more
options for I/O. If you look at something like the COM Express
Baseboard on the PixHawk
(http://pixhawk.ethz.ch/wiki/electronics/base_large), there are things
like GPIO and I2C. Also the LVDS connection is awkward and
nonstandard. Something like the mini HDMI on the PixHawk would be much
more useful. Gigabit ethernet would be useful in some situations too.
Though I wouldn't want to see an ethernet jack onboard, just headers
to which one could connect a jack if it was needed. In fact in general
it's probably better to only include headers/picoblades for every
interface and then have the user connect to those to save weight and
space.

Personally I'm only using USB cameras at the moment but Firewire (IEEE
1394) is also very popular so this is also an I/O option to consider.

More generally speaking, the CoreExpress form factor is very small
(58x65 mm) but also the number of options in this form factor is very
limited (AFAICT only Lippert manufactures for this form factor). If it
was physically possible to attach an embedded PC in a more widely
supported form factor (e.g. PC/104, 96x90 mm, we have several of these
in the lab) then that would allow labs more choice in onboard
computing. Of course with the current mechanical design of the Pelican
CoreExpress might be the only form factor that can fit between the
main vertical supports. But our lab for one would probably purchase an
adapter for PC/104 if one was available.

So to sum up:

- GPU
- more I/O options: GPIO, I2C, HDMI, Gigabit Ethernet, FireWire
- ability to easily use other computing options like PC/104

Best,
Pat

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 2:53 AM, Stefan Eichhorn
<[hidden email]> wrote:


> Dear Mr. Bouffard,
>
> at the moment we are gathering ideas regarding a new on-board computer module. However, there is not schedule for this project so far.
>
> Feel free to propose all your ideas and needs to me. I will summarize them and discuss them with my colleagues before we start to design a new board.
>
>
> Yours sincerely
>
> Mr. Stefan EICHHORN
> Leitung Vertrieb und Marketing, Prokurist
> Head of Sales and Marketing, Authorized Manager
>
> Amazing Technology!
>
> Ascending Technologies GmbH
> Konrad-Zuse-Bogen 4
> 82152 Krailling, Germany
>
> Tel:        +49 (0)89 - 89 55 60 79-10
> Web:     http://www.asctec.de
>
> Geschäftsführer/CEOs:
> Dipl.-Ing. Michael Achtelik, Klaus-Michael Doth
> Dipl.-Ing. Daniel Gurdan, Dipl.-Ing. Jan Stumpf
> Handelsregister München: HRB 166748
> Ust.-ID: DE254728199 / WEEE Reg.Nr. 72657400
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Patrick Bouffard [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. Januar 2011 07:25
> An: asctec-users
> Cc: Stefan Eichhorn
> Betreff: Questions for AscTec
>
> Bill & Ivan, thanks for creating this forum! I think it will be a useful resource for the community.
>
> I notice that Stefan Eichhorn from AscTec is on the forum users list.
> Stefan: Most of the questions I've asked in emails have been of a general nature and not specific to our particular lab's setup and so would be of general interest to other users of your systems, i.e.
> those on this list.
>
> I'd like to know whether rather than emailing AscTec directly, I could just email this list which you presumably monitor, such that the responses could be immediately seen by the community?
>
> If so, then I already have my first question ;-): Are there any plans to offer a more powerful onboard computer module, for example the next generation CoreExpress (-ECO2):
> http://www.lippertembedded.de/en/productoverview/products-according-to-form-factors/coreexpress.
> ?
>
> Cheers,
> Pat
>

 


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Re: Questions for AscTec

Stefan.Eichhorn
In reply to this post by bouffard
Please forward any further ideas/requirement etc regarding the next version of our on-board computer to me till next Monday (7th of February 2011). I will sum up all your requirements and discuss them with my colleagues on Tuesday.

Stefan Eichhorn
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RE: Questions for AscTec

Jeroen.van.Emden
Maybe the new APUs of AMD are suitable to fit on the new board.
Combining x86 with integrated Radeon gpu for extra processing power.
 
Jeroen van Emden
 

From: Stefan.Eichhorn [via asctec-users] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: donderdag 3 februari 2011 10:16
To: Emden, Jeroen van
Subject: Re: Questions for AscTec

Please forward any further ideas/requirement etc regarding the next version of our on-board computer to me till next Monday (7th of February 2011). I will sum up all your requirements and discuss them with my colleagues on Tuesday.

Stefan Eichhorn


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Re: Questions for AscTec

Bill Morris
Administrator
In reply to this post by Stefan.Eichhorn
I have not had time to test but I have concerns with the memory
performance of the Atom architecture. I don't have evidence but it feels
like we are hitting memory bandwidth limits or need a larger cache.

Also, I would like more wireless bandwidth and lower latency. Any
improvements would be helpful, as we keep flooding the network
connection.

I don't know if there is one available but a hardware video encoder
would be a nice addition as well.

On Thu, 2011-02-03 at 01:15 -0800, Stefan.Eichhorn [via asctec-users]
wrote:

> Please forward any further ideas/requirement etc regarding the next
> version of our on-board computer to me till next Monday (7th of
> February 2011). I will sum up all your requirements and discuss them
> with my colleagues on Tuesday.
>
> Stefan Eichhorn
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the
> discussion below:
> http://asctec-users.986163.n3.nabble.com/Re-Questions-for-AscTec-tp2367304p2411819.html 
> To start a new topic under asctec-users, email ml-node
> +[hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from asctec-users, click here.


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